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Welcome to episode 2 of the view with vertex. I'm your host, Isaac Morrison, and today's guest is a good friend of mine, is in a band scaffolder. He's worked for some of the biggest, uh, scaffolding businesses in the UK and on some of that most high profile construction projects for some of the biggest clients.Um, he's also a budding entrepreneur himself with his brewing company, The Wakey, Wakey Brewing Co. And [...1.4s] thanks for having me, Isaac.Ha ha ha, good to have you on. Uh, obviously we're still getting used to some of the equipment and, um, bits and pieces. But, uh yeah, great to have you on and looking forward to learning more about your story. Pleasure to be here. Uh, I've got to start, kind of from the, the very beginning.Um, your journey foots first footsteps into the scaffolding. Just, you know, we've been talking a lot about our fair, [...0.5s] um, [...0.5s] where they all begin for you.Uh, so I, I was working, uh, Northminster General Hospital, uh, in medical records filing them away as a, as a, oh, [...0.4s] I did that between 16 and 18, um, throughout college, and [...0.9s] got a phone call off my dad's mate, [...0.4s] um, who was working at GH gaffling at the time.Um, [...1.6s] and he basically needed a labourer and the convinced me that it was a good route to go down. Um, [...0.5s] I was looking at going to university after college, so it was like, you know, build some money up. Um, so the uni thing just takes up, so people know about this.And it's probably more familiar with a lot of the equipment in the studio than I am, because [...0.7s] at university, it was sound engineering on it. Yeah, did, uh, sound engineering at university, yeah, did something college as well.It was, kind of music technology and, and sound engineering through throughout college and university.Yes, yeah, and at college, [...0.9s] college was, kind of alongside the port, the port of work at the hospital, and then later [...0.5s] what would be the status capital with, with GH, yeah kinda, did, did that on the side of, uh, doing university. Yeah yeah um, so, yeah uh, got that phone call. It was only supposed to be 3 weeks just to get this.I think somebody was injured. They, they hurt themselves, and he, he was a man down, so this just to go back to that though, how did this person injury tell?Cause I couldn't believe this one heard off camera. Uh, he was a breakdancer on the side, seriously similar age to me, and he is, his thing was, uh, mine was music technology and playing in bands. Um, it was breakdancing, and, yeah, I think he sprained his wrist, so he, um, you should have all stuck together.It could have been, you could have been a travelling show, ha ha ha ha. Yeah, [...0.8s] so that's, you know, easy and yourself, you get the phone call.And, yeah um, and three weeks down the line, when I was due to go back to my, um, boring as hell day job, [...0.4s] might filing medical records. Uh, they all [...1.0s] got me in the pub to say goodbye, but then basically [...0.8s] convinced me to stay.And, and I've got on the phone [...0.4s] that afternoon, and Andy be noticing at the, uh, at the hospital, and, uh, stayed in scaffolding for a further.Well, I can't remember how many, how many weeks it was just to build that extra money up. And I did go to university [...0.4s] at the end of that. I didn't, didn't convince me to not go there. Um, although [...0.5s] it's funny that as I did, you know, I did 4 years at university.Uh, first year was a bit of a failed attempt, unfortunately, um you know, to most, most, uh, multiplanets. Um, but, yeah, especially if you throw scaffolding to the mix as well. Do you know what I mean?I every every, every break, summer break, I was I was, I was back scaffolding, and then obviously week, uh, not weekend, sorry.Um, the second, third, and fourth years weren't full weeks, so any days I had off university where I should have been doing university work, I was scaffolding, [...0.4s] scaffolding comes with its own distractions as well. Then it does it does, it does.You were talking, um, affair [...0.6s] about the hand in the notice, and I found this really interesting as well, cause I've [...1.2s] had similar experiences to this. But when you handed you notice him with the hospital, [...0.6s] um, just what did that look like? [...1.2s]Um, [...3.4s] you kind of, [...0.5s] it wasn't just the case of saying, [...0.4s] I've, um you know, found this really great gig, um, [...0.6s] scaffold in, I've decided what to take my career in a different direction.Uh, you phoned, no, you made, I made a quite a complicated story about, um, about how I was, uh, I got into university even though this was probably, [...0.7s] um, beginning of August, let's say, and universities don't usually start till like mid September.And I was moving down there and getting myself settled in. Haha, I didn't know what else to say, and she wished, she wished me the best of luck. And, and that was, that [...0.4s] mean they hit me with a Bill for all, all the holidays that I've taken. Oh, really?Yeah, yeah, of course they did. I'd I'd, I'd taken holidays that I'd, I didn't recruit, [...0.6s] all right, okay, [...0.5s] but otherwise I actually can't remember whether I paid that backbush, like a little bit less than that [...0.6s] long time ago. Sure, they've not missed it.No, [...0.4s] the reason why I found it interesting was because obviously, talking about early years, and when you [...0.5s] start in any career, whatever, [...0.5s] um, [...0.4s] and that kind of transition from being in school, so then going into full time educate, uh, to go into full time work and, [...0.5s] um kinda, start your life really, [...0.7s] uh, [...0.9s] it's, it's a weird transition because I remember something similar myself. I didn't know what to do. This is way before scaffolded ever, [...0.4s] um, come along.And I had to go to college [...1.0s] and it was like, it was kinda like school ended and college was starting. Uh, didn't really have an idea what I wanted to do. And then, you know, told the course that I thought I wanted to have psychology or something like that, [...0.8s] anything with analogy at the end of it. So, [...0.4s] you know, that was what I was gonna do.And then because of my GCSE results were like, [...0.8s] no, you've got to do this course, that course, the other course. And I'm like, [...0.6s] that's, that's not why [...0.4s] I'm got a college. Like, I'm sure I've, I'm a grown up now.I've left all that behind. I can make me do what I want, yeah, can make me all this is on the other bits. Yeah, [...0.5s] so I was like, [...1.1s] very early on for me was like, no, it's I'm, I'm done with this. I'm gonna go and find the job, wasn't scaffolding straight away.By the way, I think I've end up working in a [...0.7s] perfume warehouse. Um, more about that of the time I suppose, but, yeah um, wasn't exactly, uh, for me terrible winner.Your partnership with Allied and getting into scaffolding came, [...0.7s] uh, maybe a year, year or so after that doing weird different, working on burger vans and stuff.But, uh yeah, I'm glad, you know, glad, glad I got into it in the end, but you try all kinds of different things before you find the right job for you, don't you? And like say it's scaffolding is it's it's a, it's a weird way into it.You don't end. I don't think anybody wakes up and go, I want to be a scaffolder.Maybe the, there is the answer that I think you either born into it or you [...0.4s] sometimes roped into it. What, yeah, I think with you this kind of, [...0.6s] uh, a sense of that you kinda got brought into it, but, you know uh, in that way, family members bringing you into, uh, into the industry.With me it was Frankie [...0.6s] had started scaffolding, of course he had, um, and, [...0.4s] you know, I'd seen that he was, I was earning buttons, he'd started earning a little bit of money.He sort of grown in stature a little bit, put a bit of timber. And I was like, [...0.6s] you know, I thought, yeah you know, maybe I need to do something a bit more hands on the work in a perfume warehouse. That's kind of where, [...0.4s] well, I got into voice interesting that you said, um you know, [...0.7s] nobody, you know, nobody [...0.8s] starts our life going. I wanna be a scaffold.And, you know, [...0.7s] with the exception of a couple of piano cough, I think he definitely did think lab. The, he's one, he's one who's born into it. That's, that's what I mean.Yeah, [...0.5s] yeah, you born into it or you roped into it. There's no, there's no, I don't think anybody joins it [...0.8s] off their own back, and fair play if they do.Yeah you know, they're easy walks alive, aren't they? Certainly I say, I say this to the missus from San Sarah and like [...1.2s] cheeky shows goes, you know, what you want to do, you've got, you know, you got a plan. I don't know really what, I still don't know what I want to do, which I don't think that's a problem at all.But, [...0.4s] um yeah, I didn't come out the womb wanting to be a scaffold though, you know, the spannery man. And it's just I've [...0.8s] fallen into something and then, [...0.4s] you know, I've, kind of tried to take it as far as I can take it. You know what I mean?I think that's probably human nature that you, you want to [...0.4s] kind of progress and move on it. You just sort of the path sort of finds itself in a way.Yeah, so I, I mean, when you were [...0.6s] after that time with, with G H, [...0.8s] um, moved, moved on to HD, HD, [...1.3s] uh, [...0.5s] what was sort of thinking behind, [...0.8s] um, I'd, [...0.5s] I'd been there for, so obviously, I'd be been a GH throughout Uni, um, [...0.4s] gone [...0.5s] obviously, cause it I couldn't, it couldn't be full time always while I was doing my university work.But I pretty much finished my university work, tried to find work in the field [...0.5s] that I wanted to, in terms of, like uh, live sound engineering, you know, going out on tour gigs, that seemed really difficult. It was really hard, [...0.7s] um, job to get into.I think that's another one where you, um, [...0.7s] maybe you [...0.5s] plenty of people want to do it. It's a job that's, uh, attractive, uh huh, but it's very hard to get into. You have to know somebody who, who's got the power to get you in there.Strangely enough, though, I mean, [...0.8s] you work, work for J H1, they were like a predominantly tube and fit in, [...0.4s] uh, comforter. They LED later.So I went into layer, yeah, when they said smaller scaff, yeah, yeah, and, [...0.4s] you know, layer [...1.0s] probably one of the manufactures that are most involved [...0.4s] with, you know, events and, yeah you know, building stages and stuff. Like we spoke about ACORN, didn't we?Yeah, ACORN scaffolding do, do a lot of that kind of work. Mmm hmm, so that experience you never know could have eventually LED you into the the kind of the sound engineering in the road.It's just weird how [...0.7s] life sort of takes its path. And, yeah yeah, so, yeah, so moving [...0.8s] from GH to, uh, to HT was, uh, that was based, I didn't see any roads for, uh, improvement.But, [...0.6s] um, while it was what was now multiscaff, um, I'd, you know, I've been there [...1.6s] since I was 18, I was now 22, maybe turning 23.Yeah, and as well as with a small, I'm not thinking about HT being a bigger company, [...0.4s] um you know, is more kind of opportunities as a small team. And I know this myself cause, you know, we had a scaffolding business [...0.5s] or, you know, recently come out of a scaffolding business.And, [...0.4s] you know, as a small team, [...1.5s] you know, production productivity comes first, and sometimes training almost takes a bit of a back burner. Yeah, as with a bigger company, you've got that, [...0.5s] you know, more of that opportunity to, [...0.4s] to get yourself progressed and trained up ABS.Yeah, absolutely, yeah yeah, so, uh, that was the goal to get, to get trained up. Um, [...0.6s] and in fact, I spent, uh, [...0.4s] spent a year and a half there.And, [...0.6s] you know, I think probably I think there was a six month period where it was, you know, let's see how you getting on, and then we'll talk about putting you three tickets. And then after that six month period was, yeah, we'll get you started, we'll get you started.And, [...0.5s] um yeah, after about a year and a half, I was like, right now I need to, [...0.4s] I need to pay for myself, kind of, got pushed into it a little bit paying for, you know, I was probably still hanging on in the back of my head of them paying how far I pushed into it.I just, you know, what lads are like, other lads, you know I mean, the the the in the, in the best way possible, like, what you fucking waiting for them for pay for it yourself. If you got the money sat there, I'm like, yeah, or pay for it yourself. Don't, don't rely on them.I actually actually the best, yeah, I could see myself being one of them voices. Yeah, I'm honest, at the time I didn't get it, I felt, felt like there was, there was being on my case a little bit.Like, I was like, you know, I was kind of, why should I, you know, why would they, why they get the funding, sir to train me, why will they not, not looking back on it now is one of the best bits of advice I've ever been given. Yeah, cause I, [...0.6s] I hold on to no one.Yeah, definitely, definitely I was, and I was able to and, and it became more, [...0.7s] um, [...1.0s] I'm [...0.5s] going to think of the words to you, so economic decision would you, uh, no, no, it was, it did that decision and that that, that validation of pain for it myself, [...0.7s] um, [...1.1s] made [...0.8s] leaving when I needed to easier. Um, because I didn't feel like you owe somebody something.Yeah, and when when, when it comes to, [...0.7s] um, [...1.9s] well, I suppose you, you know, when when you, when you do get tickets, um yeah, doors open up.Yeah, and, and money changes. You you want you want, you want to see an increase in you, in your wages. And [...1.0s] when you don't think they match what what you what, what effort you've put in.Yeah, ultimately you you, you look for, look for out roles. And I, I think the, [...1.7s] if you don't, [...0.6s] if they, if they paid for you, [...0.5s] you, kind of, owe them more, yeah, you owe them that time back.Then [...0.6s] I owed, I owed nobody. It's a shame, it's a shame, cause not a lot of, you know, there's a lot of people who don't think like that. I think, I think, you know, think, like, I don't, I wouldn't wanna sort of [...0.5s] take something from somebody, not, you know, not give back.Yeah yeah, yeah, so, you know, but more a lot of people aren't that bloody, um, [...0.5s] sort of a [...1.0s] conscious about, you know, they just like, [...0.5s] oh, like, you know, what you say, before they get funding for it, so why shouldn't they pay?I think a lot of people have the attitudes, like um, oh, they're getting [...0.7s] funding for it, so, like, I know they put me through my tickets, but [...0.4s] bollocks, so, you know, I'm off, yeah yeah, yeah, but as a from a, you know, from a, the owner of a company from my, you know, perspective, [...0.5s] you know, there are avenues and channels for funding.You can, you can access, you know, grants and on what not, but they still impact on the business.You know I mean, you still gotta let that guy go, [...0.4s] and you still gotta find, you know, just because it's funded. You might not get the money when the guys on the course. So there's, there's still a cash flow, um, implication.So it's certainly for a small company. Um, but, yeah, like you say, once you've, uh, if you put that [...0.4s] money in yourself and all the rest of it, you won't, nobody, [...0.5s] uh, a thing do you really no, no, hmm, [...0.5s] and it says it's an interesting one, one thing I did wanna touch on.Obviously, it's the, [...0.9s] you know, I think this podcast, you know, what, what we try to do is get, kind of, [...0.6s] important messages out, uh, as best as we can. Um, [...1.0s] good and good and bad, kind of experiences in, in scaffolding.I know I've had plenty of good experiences, we're talking affair. Um, it's been some challenging times as well, um, definitely would you say that's been the case for yourself?Yeah yeah, yeah, there's UPS, UPS and downs in, in all walks of life, especially at work. And, uh I mean, overall fond memories [...0.6s] and on [...0.4s] every, um, [...0.7s] every job I've worked on.But there's also been, there's also been the, I suppose you can call them challenging times, you know, [...0.4s] where you, where you questioning, [...1.0s] um, your choices, you, yourself just, you know, why am I here, why am I doing this, why am I, why sometimes, why am I putting up with this?Yeah um, [...0.6s] so, yeah, because I was [...0.6s] saying, um you know, [...1.5s] certain companies you go to, like you can, you can be [...0.5s] part of the in crowd you flavoured among for all the rest of it.I was saying to you yesterday when I, like, when I went, uh, when I work, when I went up working overseas, [...0.6s] um, [...0.6s] I got started for a company, [...0.5s] not gonna mention the name, but, uh, started, started for a company [...0.5s] and, um, there was a few English lads there, a few Aussie lads there.And [...0.4s] the weird balancing attitude was like, you try to fit in with you compatriots, you know I mean, you people from the same countries, hmm, [...0.6s] don't wanna piss the Aussies off, you're in their country.And, you know I mean, [...0.6s] you ultimately you're kind of a guest, so there's a bit of a balancing that. But I just found, uh, I found the whole place to be really clicker.You either, [...1.0s] I found the dynamic scene, you either [...0.8s] sucked up to the locals, um, [...1.1s] and then you were part of the kind of in crowd or [...0.4s] you were maybe a little bit isolated night.I found, [...0.7s] uh, [...0.6s] as I say, you, you know, what I'm like, I've never had a problem, um, telling someone what I, what I think. If somebody wants to [...0.5s] get into an argument at a time with me, I'm more than happy to stand the ground with anybody, anybody.Um, but sometimes these things can end up being a bit more [...0.4s] insidious where, it's like, it's not, it's easy to defend yourself when someone's [...0.4s] upfront and picking, you know, picking at you. Yeah, you can, you can go back at them, [...0.7s] uh, and, and say what you wanna say.But sometimes, it's like, I say more in cities where it's like, oh, I'm over there. And he's like, the, they're trying to, kind of, isolate people.Um, did you find sometimes that was kind of, I think it's [...0.8s] another side of it is, it tends to be like, obviously, you into your beer brew and stuff like that.The sound engineer and you did, you know, you went to union all the rest of it. A lot of scaffolds are from backgrounds other than that easy to isolate somebody from that background.Did you find that was, [...0.6s] yeah yeah um, not everywhere, but [...0.4s] there are there has been, there has been, uh, times and places where, where, you know, you just [...1.4s] suppose the best way to put is one, cause every, one cause in every walk of life.And, uh, and they will, they will try and [...0.9s] do those things. They will try and isolate you and, and make you feel small, transfer people against you, [...0.6s] um, [...1.0s] supposing, like, it is [...0.4s] class as an actor, actor bullying, you know, just, just that kind of putting, putting people down for no, no reason other than [...0.6s] they, [...0.8s] um, just don't like you because you're different, or they see you as a threat because, yeah, you're better at your job than them.That happens as well. Huh yeah, [...0.4s] no, uh, no, it'd be right, [...0.6s] um you know, the, it takes place for all sorts of reasons. These and be it can't, it's a right a passage in our industry that you, the young lad comes in.You put the feet in the rope and wheel, you know, and the bucket and the rope and wheel they pull itself up, [...0.4s] you know, making them bump start still sort of stuff like, there is banter in this crack, but these, um yeah, there's a line there, there's more malicious, there's more malicious things that go on now.We had this, uh, so obviously, [...0.4s] um, we tried yesterday, um, [...0.4s] about some of these things, so, kinda, get a feel for where we could go with it.And I was, uh, I was telling Leanne, [...0.5s] um, [...0.9s] and, uh, that, you know, saying, like, [...0.6s] some of the subjects that we'd, uh, would want, uh, have a look at covering. Um, [...1.1s] and the, uh, obviously, [...0.6s] so I suppose we call it a, a bullying culture. Yeah um, [...0.6s] and does that exist in scaffolding?And [...0.7s] Leanne's view [...1.0s] on, on that was completely different to mine. We was talking about some of the things that has gone on stories that I've shared with her. Um you know, the idea, you know, you just said about putting the, the new lads feet in the rope and wheel.But I remember that distinctly went back to the days at [...0.5s] GH, um, [...0.7s] two lads who are work with Steve Axondale. Um, it was pretty much my mentor, um, for [...0.4s] a long time as, as a young scaffolder, um, and great mentor, by the way.Yeah, absolutely brilliant, brilliant scaffolder. He's still a good friend now. I see him every now and again, not as much as I'd like to, but, uh, actually [...0.4s] sorted him some beer out for a party.And it went down a tree apparently really did, yeah, we're getting [...0.6s] all these guests were absolutely [...0.5s] reels, [...0.4s] uh, with it. I can't wait to crack one of these open. I'm gonna cut to that now, just so everyone can have a look at it.Oh no, I did, ha ha ha, he's a, yeah um, we'll look at the bears in a couple of years. So there was, uh yeah, Steve and a lot called Pete Skidmore. Um, do you know skidders?I don't think he's I I, I've not seen him in a long time. He, he's, um, I remember that, I remember being, uh, was he on the [...0.8s] Yuna? He's on Manchester Yuna.No, [...0.7s] he's not, he's not worth [...0.5s] any of the big firms while I've been there. Like, he's, he's, [...1.3s] um, either way. Eh, he, he was a good lad, good lad or, um, and then she grabbed me and hung me off the scaffold, but just, just literally by my bell.And Leanne is like, I was speaking to Leanne, and she's like, that's, that's bullying, and I'm like, no, that's fucking hilarious.Yeah like, he's definitely, he knows that wasn't, I wasn't going, I was, like, crying, say, get off me, I was, like, laughing, laughing my head off, hanging off this scuffle, going get off me, fucking bastards.You know like, it is, it's the same with, like you know, [...0.5s] taping the, taping somebody up against a steel pillar and leaving them there all day. Yeah you know, that's your labor technically, you need them, them handing gear out to you.Yeah, and and, and, you know, getting the, getting the next lift ready or whatever [...0.4s] doing summer, but no, sometimes, you know, the valley Gob on them, you know what?Let's tape them to that fucking steel pillar and see how they like that for a change. We'll manage this job on our own, you know, and you do it.Yeah, they really is, there's a lot of bullying. It's a fine line, yeah, but it's a 100%, I believe it's a right passage. Um, it's just when people like you say, they take it too far and it becomes fully, and it becomes isolation.I always remember [...0.8s] when I was over there, when I was in Australia, missus coming on Saturday evening, [...0.9s] and, um, I'll be telling you a lot of stories about this and that, it's like sound horrible like that. I was like, [...1.5s] idiots.You know what I mean in my ass. And then she went to feel like they bullying you. And [...0.7s] for me to kind of admit that I've never ever, I should probably never heard me say, you know, until she is, this I'd never say, [...0.9s] cause you are, I can't be bullied. I can handle myself. I can look after myself.Yeah yeah, as I say, sometimes it's so all, and it's, [...0.5s] um, it's slowly grinding away. Yeah, it's not, it's, yeah yeah um, completely agree with you. You, you tell a story, each other discredit the child.I'm like, [...0.6s] as I say, it's easy to defend yourself when someone's coming at you. But when someone's, [...0.6s] you know, being a bit more obtuse about it, it's it's, [...0.6s] you know, it's difficult environment to be. Hmm, and I felt it since, um you know, in other, [...0.5s] I'd say that one was probably more, [...1.2s] uh, more of a, I don't know whether it be a cultural thing or, or whatever. Do you know what I mean? It was a [...0.7s] strange set of circumstances.I've had it like you, like you say, when I've, I've been running scaffolding sites for, for companies. I come on to somebody else's site.They're running the site, [...0.5s] and [...0.6s] if not like the idea that I'm there [...0.6s] and do sort of trying [...0.6s] discredit what I'm saying, yeah, put me on rubbish jobs, like, I'll, I'll, kinda show him.Um, I remember once I went, I went away for, um, [...0.5s] had an operation on my wrist, [...0.6s] and my labour at the time ended up going working with this other gang, [...0.5s] um you know, so on someone else's site and everything.So I'm off for about a month, month and a half, [...0.4s] um, [...0.6s] finally site, you know, I use my wrist again, and everything things looking alright.Go back in, and then there's this little click in there, [...0.4s] and I'm on the, I'm on the site, and they're like, uh yeah, talk to you in a minute. You know, that kind of stuff.Like you know I mean, but, and, you know, on that occasion, it did end up coming to a head where it's like, [...0.5s] you know, this guy going, when's that gonna be done?What? Every time I drill into this floor, I was setting handrails. I said, every time I drill into this floor, I'm hitting rebar, is that well, you wanna get it sorted by the end of this shift. And I'm like, oh, what? Do you know what I mean?Yeah, yeah, and it ends up in this big heated argument and everything. And I suppose a guy seems, by the way, I'm not gonna mention any names, but, you know, sound as now think it just needs, like, maybe he didn't realise he was doing it, maybe didn't realise that he was trying to defend me, maybe felt there was a threat to his position, which he definitely wasn't. [...1.0s]So if anything, the less response that I get, the better. Um, but, yeah um, [...0.6s] it does happen, [...0.7s] it does happen, even if it's, uh, in all walks of life and [...0.6s] not just, you know, in the scaffolding industry. But, [...1.0s] yeah, I think the lines get blurred in our industry more because [...0.8s] there's an expectation [...0.6s] of [...0.9s] banner.Yeah, it's gonna, yeah, definitely, there's also, also the, um, if you look at other industries, um, [...1.3s] hard to pick one out, um, particularly, but scaffolding is very unique. The, um you know, there's no human resources in scaffolding.You know, you can, you know, there's, there's no HR, [...0.4s] yeah, to say how you're not allowed to speak to people like that you got a kind of fucking deal, deal with it.And, and, [...1.2s] yeah, basically deal with it yourself and find, find the right solution, you know, and it's not always a case of getting aggressive and offering somebody out [...0.4s] verify. You know, that's bad, if anything.Me personally, that's not the way you go about. Some people, they don't know any other way. Unfortunately, [...0.8s] you know, you have to, you have to find a way around it to clear the air and make sure, you know, make sure that you've got a decent working environment.Ultimately, you can be in certain places. I've certainly been in them, um, over the years where [...0.4s] the people there just don't want that to be the case and they want a hostile environment. They want [...0.9s] to [...0.5s] see, yeah um, antagonization and aggression on a day to day basis because they think [...0.8s] that's full.Yeah, [...0.5s] and it's a shame, I think, [...0.8s] you know, before we move on, cause I did what I touch on it, I did what, um you know sort of have that conversation because I think it's an important one.So before I think, before we move on, uh you know, for people watching, [...0.4s] um, I'd [...0.4s] say, you know, as we say, [...1.1s] maybe the HR sort of element, it is coming into scaffolding more and more now that there are avenues where you can take these disputes and things like [...0.4s] that.It's hard to see from, obviously, where I'm, I'm now a [...0.4s] small, small film again, um, because it's allowed me to spend more time on, on my business, [...0.6s] um, outside the scaffolding. Um. [...1.1s] So it is difficult. You don't, obviously we don't have anything like that.It is good. It is good to hear if that's the case at the bigger firms because oh, yeah, it's changing, it is changing. You know um, what I mean? I know obviously this, this huge, um, [...1.1s] conversation happening around mental health.And, you know uh, I read some, you know, I've read some horrendous things that, you know, LinkedIn in the media and stuff like that, um, recently. Uh, and the message always seems to be, you know, it's okay to talk, [...0.4s] um, it's not weak to speak.You know, these, all these kind of, um, [...1.3s] would you call it? Uh, initiatives and campaigns going around.I think one you don't necessarily see as often and I think it [...0.5s] speaks to this, [...0.5s] uh, topic as well is [...1.2s] people in positions of authority or responsibility looking out for it, [...0.5s] you know, looking out for itself, [...0.6s] um, getting, getting people in for toolbox sorts, having the discussion, um, and [...0.7s] being proactive in looking for issues rather than waiting for somebody to come to you and say, listen, the, I need to move gangs because this lot aren't really being very fair to me or whatever.Um yeah, I said [...0.5s] we need to get management and, uh, [...0.4s] senior management involved in the, in the policing of workplace bullying. I'd say, yeah yeah yeah, yeah, we, we certainly got, uh I mean, it might not go as far as, um, [...0.9s] managing.I don't think there's, there's much of a culture that, where I'm currently working that, that there's a really good team of lads. They're all [...0.5s] sound, there's not [...0.7s] anybody, really, I'm [...0.5s] sure there's lads who, who don't always see eye to eye, but there's definitely not an element.There's no there's, there don't seem to be any elements of bullying going on this, um, everybody, kind of the good, good, um, [...1.2s] big culture is the word you get on. Good culture, good, um, good air of camaraderie and stuff like that, yeah um, going on. But, um, [...0.7s] Agafa just put it out to us. It went come to me privately.If you've got an issue with working with anybody, I'll sort it out. In terms of I won't, basically I won't work, won't put you with them. If I know there's an issue, and you don't like working with somebody, I won't make you work with them. [...1.3s]You should say [...1.0s] the Gaffrey's talking about [...1.0s] Cal, Cal who owns, uh, Elite Scaffolding. Um, I get a good friend of mine, um, [...0.6s] friend of vertex as well. You know yeah, we do a lot of work with, uh, Cal.It's really, [...0.5s] I didn't know that actually what you, uh, but it's really refreshing to hear that he's like, he's proactively monitoring, um, people's attitude. So he he he, he needs, we're only a small, small team. He needs [...0.6s] is gangs to work.Well, you can't have gangs who don't work well together because the work doesn't get done properly. Need teams who understand each other, [...0.7s] have banter all you want, but [...0.7s] don't fucking take the piss on the job.Get it, get the work done. Don't work against each other. Hmm you know yeah, and that unfortunately, when you have a team who doesn't [...0.8s] quite get on, you do often find there'll be somebody there who doesn't, doesn't want to play ball with the rest of the two. They'll always be somebody going against the grain. One drop of poison [...0.5s] can, uh, can spoil a meal.Yeah yeah I mean, really can, um yeah, so that's, uh, it's an important thing. So [...0.4s] it's really, I didn't know that it sort of, uh, it's practically been, uh, out Aladdin Charter Police. That's really refreshing to wear that.Yeah yeah, another, another friend of mine who owns a company Eye Staff, uh, like a Ross Brown. Uh, I spoke to him a few weeks ago. He was at a layer, um, a seminar like convention. And he'd mention that he'd actually gone as far as to bring a psychologist in Ops.But psychologist be the proper term, I think was gonna say psychiatrist, but I think he is psychologist. Um, [...0.5s] it brought them in and actually brought them into the teams.It actually done some kind of [...0.7s] psychological profile in on the lads, [...0.4s] um, to see which [...0.4s] personality type to props deal with, and try to, [...0.7s] uh, mix the gangs up. Uh you know, the work teams up to, kind of uh you know, ensure the gel and hopefully get the best, guess, best kind of product to do. Quite an interesting, uh, interesting way to do it. It is, it is be interested to know if it works for.It is well, Ross, if you're watching, um, you're next in the hot seat mate. If you wanna come on and, and tell us how that's going.Definitely, uh, interested to hear your story [...1.2s] lining up yesterday. [...1.9s] It should be really interesting though, like, the, [...0.6s] since, I mean, I did shot the last episode last week, [...0.6s] really getting a lot of people saying, oh, yeah, sounds really interesting that, you know, won't mind coming on and having a, having a chat.So he's be starting to gain a [...0.6s] bit attraction good. Hopefully, [...0.8s] hopefully we don't get too [...0.6s] drunk on this one, [...0.6s] um, cause I think I just set the camera up now. This is ants, [...1.0s] this is Ants Brew Company, the Wakey, Wakey Brew Company, which we're gonna, [...0.6s] gonna get to in a couple of seconds.Um, [...0.5s] last little bit about scaffold before we get into that. So you write HD [...0.4s] with a mentor, um, stay, get your qualifications or begin to start getting your qualifications, move on to, [...0.4s] uh, Linden yeah, yeah, Linden, Linden scaffolded, so another company we both worked at.Um yeah yeah, well, we worked, yeah, we worked together there for, for a little bit, didn't we? I think I, I'd say I'd, I'd say that's more where I know you [...0.4s] from, where we, kind of, worked together a lot. Um, I got to know each other. Um, [...1.1s] I've just been, we've been in touch since then.Yeah, really, we've [...0.4s] really worked together since then, but no, it's the same, [...0.5s] but I kinda, I kinda, came into the, the training consultant just after, [...0.5s] after leaving there, I guess.Yeah yeah, yeah um, but, yeah, there was some some, some fun memories, definitely [...0.6s] waking up early morning, trying to onefield. I don't know why I'm counting that as the [...0.5s] within the fun memories. I don't know what waking up early.It's cause of onefield. Yeah, always going to onefield bad anytime as a United fan, we can say that, we can, yeah, we can definitely say that, you know, they'd say, they'd only say the same absolutely, absolutely.And by the way, um, part of that job was, um, demolition, which, you know, that pleased me greatly. It [...0.5s] was some, a lot bits and pieces that needed smashing up.And I took great care and attention in, uh, in [...0.6s] demolishing part of Anfield, knocking all that crest absolutely, yeah um yeah, some, some [...0.5s] funny stories driving the vans, van setting on fire.There was all sorts on there. Oh, yeah um, but, yeah, as we're saying always, [...0.4s] always a coffee there in the morning. Um, I think that's when it first started, started to [...1.0s] get the idea of your personality, is a bit of a, would you say it a bit of a, [...0.9s] is food in the right term.Yeah, uh yeah, I'm hundred percent. I've always been, I've always liked the food, always been into food. Good food. Mmm hmm um, suppose good drink and probably [...0.4s] the drink.In terms of beer, [...0.5s] um, coming to it later, don't get me wrong. When I was younger, you would just smash pints down your neck. It didn't really matter what it was, yeah, as long as it was [...1.1s] cold and refreshing. Um, but, uh, it was definitely a turn. Um, it's probably [...1.4s] obviously punk IPAs came out, uh like 2,007, so that was quite a bit before I really got into it.But then it was a point where the, the IPA, [...0.7s] um, seen, seen or, or the the, the IPA, IPA craze hit.Uh huh, and I, I got my first taste of IPA, [...0.4s] and before I knew it, [...1.0s] I was, I was getting LED into different styles of beer, and it wasn't just IPAs, and then he become cast beer, and, yeah, and now I quite literally struggle to drink anything that's not cast beer.Yeah, yeah, I'm not gonna say bass now, but, yeah um, [...0.7s] it's weird cause, like, you acquire a taste that I remember when I first started drinking red wine.Um, [...0.4s] the, [...0.7s] the story behind that as well as I was doing a bit of training at the time, so I was, like, quite fit. And, um, I'd read that it was like, in Men's Off, something like, oh, yeah, a glass of red wine with, uh, your meal is, like, good.It promotes this, that and the other circulations better. Um, [...0.7s] and then realised I quite like the taste of this stuff. It's, um, so, yeah, but then, you know, if I look at the wiser drink [...0.4s] when I first started drinking it [...0.4s] definitely, you know, you do.It's an acquired taste in it, you do so, like, start your palate develops and all the rest of it. And [...0.8s] so, yeah, the interesting thing with the ales [...0.8s] and the IPAs and stuff like that.When we lived overseas, when we lived in Australia, you, you'll have heard of this place as well. Like, I would imagine, um, [...0.6s] we were living Fremantle, and there's a microbru there called Little Creatures.Have you come across that stuff before? Little creatures? Yeah, I think they sold into some supermarkets over, over there, [...1.0s] uh, not off the top of my head, heard of Little Critters, but they're in Sheffield.Alright, ha ha ha ha, ah, they definitely who's copied open business, ah, too close well for that, ah ah, it's not for me to say, ha ha ha, oh, yeah, but it's weird, cause as I got home [...0.5s] from there, [...0.4s] uh, ended up getting insert red wines, [...0.4s] live next to one of the biggest, right wine producing regions in Australia, so not far from Margaret River, Swan Valley, both [...0.5s] big wine producing regions.Um, [...0.7s] and then, yeah, two seconds away from this little creatures, which I just follow bearing it. I'll Google them in a bit, yeah, yeah, I'll, I'll make a place.I'm really, really surprised. I'm not heard, yeah, it's, it's little MacBook, it was mega place, um, [...1.4s] yeah went down there. It was just a case of going there just for a beer, never really appreciated what, what was an offer.Yeah, yeah, whereas now I've come home. All the things that [...0.6s] I just took for granted over there, that I didn't really give a shit about what was over there [...0.4s] now thinking, oh god, oh, that was there.And I could have you know I mean it could have been little creatures, and, [...0.4s] um, trying all the different beers and trying all the different wines. We did go wine testing a couple of times, which [...0.9s] piss up real, ha ha.Oh, well, [...0.5s] even when you're beer tasting, it's a piss up, yeah, beer, beer tasting, wine tasting, it all results in one thing.I was saying, by the way, we need to [...0.5s] do a, [...0.6s] a beer, a wine, or possibly whiskey. We were saying what mate, yeah, a whiskey taste in, uh, episode. So if anybody else is keen for that, [...0.6s] hit me up, give us a shout and we'll get you on. Sound like great idea.Yeah, yeah, oh, oh oh, [...0.4s] a terrible idea, but I can certainly come up with some good suggestions for any, any of any of those three. I enjoy my wine, beer and whiskey.Yeah, and your feels about that, this was saying about Anfield. Remember you always coming in. You always had, like, a, [...0.8s] a jerk Rob for your chicken, chicken. [...8.4s]We, we we're we're living together. Oh, I'm sorry we were, was, but we weren't in our own house. Um, so we had more than enough money [...0.4s] to, to, kind of just, [...0.6s] um, save up. And then we was always like [...0.5s] passing our time by [...0.4s] going out and buying weird weird and wonderful things to cook rather than just sticking to the norm of, you know doing something else. We can kind of really found our past time in cooking. Yeah, um uh and that's just carried on.One of the big ones for me was Curry. I love making Curry, [...0.5s] and now I spent I must say I'm spent a good five years [...0.9s] really, really getting, [...0.9s] um, [...1.1s] getting it down, like, to how, how how to make a good curry from, from from scratch to now where I, I'd literally go home.She says I want curry, [...0.6s] and we make Corey from scratch. There's no jazz, no pastes. This everything from, from raw ingredients talking yourself into me, mystic, [...1.0s] you've been more than welcome.Have you still got bar in your garden? By the way? The bar was it called the Scaffold's House, we did call the Scaffold's House, [...0.6s] yeah, so, [...0.5s] yeah, the, the what is now, um, the current brew set up? Um, oh, is that what the Bear's brewed now? Yeah, uh do you want me to cover that in a in a little?No, no no, I will go into that now. Okay, cool, um, so, yeah, um obviously everybody had a little bit of a lockdown project. I'd already started brewing beer, [...0.6s] um, as, like, home brew back in [...0.8s] 2,018, uh, back, like, back end of the summer 2018 is when I first started doing home brewing.Um, obviously fast forward 2020 lockdown, [...0.4s] um, [...0.4s] and that, that whole, like the pubs being [...0.7s] in, um, indefinitely, sure a massive social aspect for a lot of people.But for us, it was we, we love going out into Rochdale, and as soon as they were they were back open in any shape or form, we was down there [...0.4s] making sure they was getting what money we had [...0.8s] to, [...0.7s] to kinda support them and make sure that they were open now.Uh, huh um uh cause Rochdale's [...0.7s] got an absolute fantastic, [...0.4s] um, [...1.4s] drinking scene in general. Um, I'll touch on that in a bit.I'm gonna say Rochdale, we including Middleton in this, cause Middleton's a contangious one. It's like Rochdale is it. I am not personally including Middleton in that in that statement. However, Middleton does have its good places also as it's bad.Um, [...0.6s] you can close it within Rochdale town centre as a Rochdale town centre [...1.4s] is great, and people have this dim view of it [...0.4s] from out from the outside because of how it was [...0.6s] probably 15 years ago now, hmm, when it was a bit run down.Hmm, they've developed it, this [...1.1s] at least, obviously, you know I'm, my big thing is real ale. Um, there is least a 10 [...0.6s] real ale pubs. Like, you can pub crawl [...0.5s] eight to 10 pubs in Rochdale and have a good part of real ale in every single one of them.They won't just serve real ale, they will have your craft lagers on. They will have ciders both real and, and like you, [...0.5s] you fizzy cider, put that real cider as in, like, almost, [...0.4s] yeah, like scrumpys. Um, [...0.9s] you've got, um, [...0.6s] swanky wine bars where you can get some [...0.6s] really, [...1.1s] um, [...1.5s] really rare [...0.6s] bottles of wine. [...1.5s] Um, are these confusing me?I can't, haha. Are we are we okay yeah are we okay yeah, sorry, um, yeah sorry. So, yeah, there's, there's there's cocktail bars. Um, they've got this new, [...0.6s] um, mini golf, um, bit near the near the where the cinema is. They built, like, a new cinema.I'm sure there might be even be bowling there as well. Um, but the, the mini golf is, is a great day out for, for, like, [...0.5s] um couple young couples are families, even, you know just going up a bit of a few beers.And, and it's mini, indoor mini golf is, is such fun. I, I really enjoyed it. Um, you know there seems to be a lot more to do in Rochdale, um, even now from when I moved, moved there, uh, back in 2,017. Um, it's changed so much, obviously bearing in mind [...0.4s] two years we were allowed out the house practically.Yeah, um yeah weird. Everyone's had a everyone had a different experience of the lockdown. And, yeah, you said they're lockdown projects.My, my sad lockdown project was, um, [...1.0s] May NCRQ. So it's, like, a qualification in health and safety, oh, yeah, yeah which is, like, kinda LED to the, the business that I'm, uh, running now.So, you know but you used your time and you got, yeah, used your time got something done, and all the rest of, I think everybody had, kind of a different experience of, uh, of lockdown where [...0.7s] I was I was lucky enough.I was working for similar time, um, so it was Fairload at 8% of my ages, which, you know yourself, [...0.7s] you know especially working in construction right on the road a lot.It's not really easy to rain. You spending and buy roughly 20%, you know you're not out of the house, you're not putting anything in your car, you're not um, [...0.9s] you're not spending buying coffee, you're at, you, you you you inadvertently you're up, aren't you on 80%?Yeah, yeah yeah, you're not you're not you're not stopping at the garage to buy yourself [...0.4s] coffee, which always ends up coming with a biscuit or, or or crisps or [...0.7s] a whole meal deal.Yeah, yeah, exactly, and then that's just on the way to work, and then you, you want something, so you can end up spending absolute fortunes while you're at work. So [...0.4s] my experience on those long on those long drives back from Liverpool, how many how many passengers are driving beers?Oh man, that van was like a is like a rolling disco. I remember me and [...0.5s] me and Lee, [...1.7s] should I tell this, that is not that bad? I'm gonna tell it. Um, [...1.1s] is this what I'm thinking, you guys? Yeah, you know yeah so we decided we're gonna try and drink, uh, eight cans [...0.6s] of strong by Strong Bow.We had whatever lager we had, probably something stronger, stronger than Strong Bow as well, yeah, between Liverpool [...0.5s] and [...1.3s] Liverpool. [...10.3s] Yeah, eight cans each [...0.5s] finishing by the time we get back to Failsworth, [...0.5s] 40 minute 45 minute drive or something like that.This time we're gonna go into Tesco for a few more. Yeah, um yeah walked to the Tesco, walking across to the bed, early spots this, um, [...0.6s] yellow, big yellow foam football. Uh, [...0.5s] and then out of nowhere just [...1.1s] blast this thing up into the starving. What the fuck are you doing? Um, [...0.5s] what way to draw attention to yourself? Yeah, um luckily, it was only foam.Yeah, um yeah thought nothing of it, bit of a giggle, and all the rest of it gets our beers, go to the pub that we do now and home.Um, [...0.7s] two weeks later, he gets pulled into the uh, into the office, [...0.6s] cause the Tesco had been on [...0.6s] to [...0.6s] the company that we worked for at the time. Probably work out from what I said, but, um, to the management.And he got a right, um, most of his lucky not to have lost his job, but [...0.8s] how much [...0.4s] that we're leaving. I don't why, [...0.6s] why why did I not know he got pulled into?Oh, yeah, he got pulled in for it, yeah, cause someone seen the van. Yeah, they seen the water there, seen the van. I don't know where it got, as far as seeing the CCTV, he owned up to it straight away.And I was like, yeah, it was me. [...1.7s] Yeah, I think, you know what as well, um, that's something I always I stand by um, at work about people who [...1.0s] have to do something silly or do something by accident, it doesn't matter.And they go, oh, [...0.4s] don't tell anyone don't tell anyone and then when it when who who's brought that, who's done this, [...0.6s] and everyone's having to be quiet, just own up to it.Yeah, weird, um, [...0.8s] you know I'm gonna tell a story now. Um, yeah she probably won't mind. Um, maybe the maybe the way I'm using the story [...1.2s] potentially might not like, but he's, he's a good lad.I've, I've got a lot of um, got a lot of uh, time for, for the lad who, who I'm [...0.5s] talking about, but I'm not gonna name any names. Um, [...0.7s] shouted out of uh, out of the van window at, um, a girl on a balcony. Get your socks off, haha, completely harmless.But when he got back to the gaffer, he'd not shouted that she, she decided that he'd said something else. And at the end of the day, he's, he's, yeah, you know thanks, right, because it's her word against is, [...0.4s] and, um, the gaffer the gaffer knew who done it, cause of whose band they were in.Hmm, [...0.8s] and it, he didn't he wouldn't admit, he's like, I'm, I'm I'm not saying anything.He would, he said, you, you if you if you're bothered, you tell him. I was like, I'm, I was a, be a man and just, just tell, like, own up to doing it. And, and and tell, be, be tell him you didn't say what she's saying. He said, [...0.4s] but if you're honest, [...0.6s] said it, less will come of it. Yeah, so he rang gaffer up and, uh, and [...0.5s] was honest. Yeah, and he still sat. Oh, [...0.6s] wow, [...0.9s] I shouldn't laugh at that. Well, it was it was it was but it was it was a very silly move.Yeah, well, believe it was a I had to see you. You are [...0.8s] nine times out of ten, better off [...0.5s] just holding your hands up and meeting when you in the in the first instance.Yeah, yeah yeah absolutely, yeah, I think so. Like I said, I've, I've always lived and died by being [...1.1s] super transparent, you know if I've done something wrong, if I've got something wrong, I was only in the course of the week.I [...0.4s] mentioned something, [...0.6s] and someone has, ah, you know it's changed. I was like, [...0.7s] and [...0.4s] fair enough, it's changed. I didn't realise it changed, and, [...0.4s] you know you own it, and you go look, you know very, very minor detail by the way.Yeah, but, um, I said, yeah, you know that, that part of it's changed. You know I wasn't aware that it recently changed, and, you know that's, that's it.I think it's better than going, [...0.5s] oh, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, now you mention it, yeah, I do remember false of Abbott, you know of all, [...0.4s] yeah, yeah CJ just go, yeah, I got that wrong.Yeah, [...0.8s] it's fucking big deal. It's not exactly, it's not it's not yeah, but you get that, that comes with age as well. Then you know what I mean. As you get older, you're not really as [...0.9s] asked by what people what what people think. You just think, uh, it is what it is.I think that goes that goes right back to that, um, before about, uh, Andy be noticing that the, [...0.7s] at the hospital, yeah, like making this big convoluted story rather than just going, yeah, I'm not coming back. I've, uh, I've got something else to watch.I wanna do. Um, thanks, thanks thanks for having me, [...0.5s] see you see you later see you later what have you given me, mom? Yeah, [...0.5s] yeah. What happens if it goes on my personal record or my national record of achievement, which they used to bang on about when he was in school and I've never seen that since.No, exactly [...0.7s] imagine going to an interview with it. Imagine [...0.5s] as a bit as a bit I'm 37, they'll be 38 in June. Imagine going to a job interview and go up, [...0.5s] I brought me record of achievement. I got a fucking C inside. I didn't get C inside, by the way.What's the job interview by the way? [...1.3s] I don't think I've ever done one of those since the hospital, by the way, because I've [...0.4s] basically works in scaffold. You know what [...0.5s] do we have job interviews in scaffolding?We don't in Australia. They did, in Australia, they did. It was quite formal over there even with just really, yeah, it was quite formal. Not every firm you work at, but [...0.4s] a lot of them are quite formal.And then the two the two that stick out as actual [...0.4s] job interviews [...0.5s] for me [...0.6s] were, um, the job interview simian [...0.8s] and the job interview I did one. Can you imagine you having an interview?Yeah, yeah, so I did one for them and I did one for [...0.4s] like the same week, [...0.8s] for I just decided I wanted to be off the tools and I wanted to be around there. I had this thing in my mind, I wanted to be out of it and try to do something else.Not because I thought it was better, I just wanted to [...0.4s] change. And, [...0.6s] you know you maybe use different [...0.4s] skills other than the, you know I put scaffolds up to an extent. Um, [...0.4s] you know so, yeah, I did the job interview with Simeon and I did, um, a job same week with 48.3, [...0.6s] uh, a guy called Ben born again.You've said you're coming on, so don't try, ha ha ha, get out of it. Uh, but yeah, did a job interview with them, [...0.8s] and I'd, you know never wasn't used to doing job interviews, certainly didn't save the record of achievement, no.Um, but, yeah, the one with one with Simmin, it was, like, [...0.5s] went in, sat down Simon Hughes's, uh, Dave Vandals's. Uh, these are people who dared oven, and stuff, and sat down with him. Like, oh, [...0.8s] um, [...0.7s] must have said something, right, you know cause, uh, managed, you know managed to get the job there.I'd got to the last round of interviews with 48.3 as well to the point where it was, like, gonna be, you know the physical interview.The first couple would done over zoom, alright, one on zoom most likely heard did a second one on zoom.And I think other members of their team with anyone, right, you know can you come in, bring some of your own work with, you know designs, drawings that you've worked off, [...0.6s] uh, things like that, and come in [...0.5s] and do that the physical interview.Okay, um now [...0.4s] I, I've done the interview with [...0.7s] Simeon and Sarah, was like, access and look, it's going pretty well with this one. Um, [...0.7s] and it's got, you know they, they seem quite positive [...0.4s] when I spoke to them as well.So [...0.4s] she so she's like, what, what the both jobs in sale, [...0.7s] as, you know design engineering, I can imagine, obviously never went into that, but, [...0.7s] uh, I can imagine there's quite a lot of emphasis on [...0.7s] being pretty academic and being quite mathematically astute, which I'm not.Yeah, you know I wanna be first to admit that. And, you know the other side of it is [...0.7s] the simian job was a trainee instructor and inspector. Um, and she's like, Isaac, you're top shy, you know what I mean?You, you could talk a glass eye to sleep. I actually said that someone with a glass eye once. That's another story for another day. Uh, I have I have uh, witnesses to that, that conversation as well. Did they take offense?I just feel like that [...1.4s] what, ha ha, ha, ha ha, ah, [...0.4s] yeah yeah it was a, yeah, but anyway, yeah, so, um, [...0.5s] do you want it like you, that's, that's you all over speaking to people, and I suppose look at what we do what we doing now. Yeah, yeah, do you know what I mean?So, uh, I think I made the right my right choice. Uh, I think I made the right choice yeah, definitely, yeah, yeah, it's one of them.I was only speaking to another lad the other day who's got into the, uh, [...0.4s] just recently going to the instructing, [...0.6s] uh, space as working for a friend of mine who owns fulcrum and [...0.7s] another company called, uh, Work Eye Solutions. Uh, and he also works offshore in like the, is kind of off time.Uh, so, like, he's was a bit offshore and comes home, does his shadow in, uh, uh cisrs courses and now he's delivering courses himself.Obviously, the money offshore is pretty good and the money and insurance can be can be quite good as well. Uh, I said to him, [...0.4s] you know when you're offshore [...0.6s] and when you come back home, [...0.6s] I said, do you ever get that feeling that you [...0.5s] wish he was back offshore again? Like never, [...0.7s] you know what I mean?Never. No, I said, now when you're offshore, [...1.4s] do you have, [...0.8s] do you miss, um, what you doing now is like everyday, [...0.6s] is that everyday? So it's one of them, it's like yeah he misses the instruction.Yeah, so I, I, like, why would you go back off short? Is he purely, purely, I think, yes, purely financial, just to just to get that extra money in.Yeah, but he'll go into instructing full time, I think, yeah, and he sounds like he's gonna be pretty good at it as well. And there is a shortage, I mean there is a shortage of people wanting to get into, [...0.6s] um, instructing.Yeah, there is, [...0.4s] yeah, I mean the Nask and says there's a bit between them. I have to ask more of an expert on it. But they've started putting funding out, [...0.6s] um, for training providers to help kind of fund [...0.8s] that initials. You have to do shadowing. When you shadowing a course, you're not delivering some [...0.4s] technically, it's a it's a cost, you know to the business.Yeah, yeah so I have someone sit there just watching someone else deliver the course, [...0.6s] uh, as it's quite an impact, uh, yeah they, they started to put this funded out there to get more people interested in it.Um, so this guy, I think he's gonna go into, I think he's gonna do really well, um, [...0.5s] similar to me as well as young when he did it. And I think that's the thing that's changing.I think both in life in same football and in [...0.9s] construction that younger people are getting [...0.4s] more [...0.7s] higher profile jobs earlier on now.I don't know what you call it, like [...0.4s] coaching culture or whatever, but [...0.6s] a lot of football manager now seem to be a bit younger, yeah, yeah, used to be the old boys to, you know years, years of experience in the game.You know now it now, like you say, they're almost like, [...1.6s] they, they they know they wanna be a manager before they've even [...0.9s] had a full playing career or they, they, [...0.4s] you know try to think of a good example as, [...0.4s] um, [...1.7s] it was it was it was it was it was coach at United [...0.6s] Mckenna.Yeah, and he, he he he, obviously, he, his playing career was cut short, so he just fast traps he he fast straps himself straight as coaching. And now he's, uh, he's in the manager's job.I can't remember where, [...0.8s] but it does seem to be, be a trend on it. It's like, [...0.4s] um more people, [...0.4s] uh, you think about you've had a career of 15 years [...0.5s] or 20 years for some people by the time they get to the bike. Um, [...0.7s] by the time they get to the mid 30s, they might have done 15 years, you know in, in the industry. Hmm, you know you, you've Learned.If you've been switched on, you can learn enough in that time to, you know to, [...0.7s] to transfer certainly pass it on to, to, uh, people just coming into it, but obviously [...1.1s] be, uh, wrong to say you can't you can't learn everything.If you if I always still go to work with the attitude of [...0.5s] not learn anything or not tried somewhat different, it's not it's almost not worth it. Yeah, and, you know you [...1.3s] and he's looking at the cameras.We are good yeah, we are good we are but last week the battery car didn't add, so, [...0.6s] um, so, yeah, you know that whole, [...0.7s] you know make try and make sure you learn something new everyday.You still can you still can find it [...0.8s] a better or easier way to, to do any job. Um, unless, I suppose, unless you stuck on fronts and bats of houses. Yeah, um but, [...0.4s] yeah, but you start marginal gains in it, you try to find those marginal gains.Yeah, yeah back to the brib, um, [...0.4s] shall we? I think I'm gonna crack one of these bad boys open. Okay, I think, um, I'm gonna crack one open, [...0.7s] so, [...0.6s] uh, [...0.5s] this is, [...1.7s] I'm gonna open that.I'm gonna be really, uh, [...0.4s] I'm trying to do something cool there, ha ha ha ha [...0.4s] ha, open one with another. I'm gonna use ball, so which one's from [...0.6s] council estate, ha ha, [...0.5s] um, [...0.6s] most of my early drinking on the streets, but, uh, we do. Is it better in a glass? I prefer my all my beer in a glass, so let's drink.Well, what you get the rate, my, you get the aroma, okay, coming through more you, cause the, the wider, the top of the glass.Alright, let's have a look. I hope we picked up the initials that had been, I think we did, that'd be nice. Okay, so, so cheers, cheers [...0.4s] and [...0.5s] let's give this a go. I know we're gonna have to do the old clink, but [...0.6s] here we go. So, [...1.7s] so really, um, almost that first, [...0.7s] first thing I get, I'm not gonna try and be some sort of connoisseur or anything like that. [...1.6s]The smell is good the smell is good like green and resinous. Yeah, what, what am I getting now? What is it? It's, it was the hops, but we got, um, so this is, uh, supercharged with hops. Um, they're all British [...0.4s] supercharged, yeah, all British varieties. Now, um, [...1.9s] the how do I go about this? [...1.1s] I don't sip, [...1.0s] how do I?No, no, it's just where to start, and I'll describe it, [...2.3s] American hops, Australian hops, [...0.5s] um, [...0.6s] New Zealand hops, they're all [...0.9s] very, very, [...0.5s] um, sought after [...0.4s] some absolutely fantastic varieties.British beer [...0.8s] was always brewed with British hops for years now, obviously with the craze of the American, Australian, New Zealand brides and others as well.I'm just using them to them, them 3, uh, uh, some [...0.7s] very big hitters terms of the, the bright is that they have, [...0.6s] um, and everybody wants brew beer with them. I'm wondering if the microphone picks up that little [...1.5s] bit of gas there. I'm gonna move this way slightly, um, go on.And it's almost like British shops have been forgotten a little bit, but oh really, um, not by everybody, don't get me wrong, does not just, um it's not the only Brewer here try, uh, um, [...0.7s] push forward British hops making the forefront of what I do, [...0.8s] um, when I'm brewing beer.But, [...1.0s] um, there, there is in, in, in the grand scheme of things, there are fewer brewers using [...0.4s] British varieties than what. Um, there are others. I've always, you know I've always found this with, like, uh, you know when you when you taste something and someone describe what you're, you're tasting.Um, [...0.7s] and I've done this [...0.8s] spoke to me with the, um, in the message one what during lockdown, [...0.4s] we had this, uh, [...0.7s] we called decent drop, that's the local company, um, [...0.5s] and we're doing zoom wine tasting things, and I can sit in the house with a bottle of wine.I can really enjoy it. Um, but [...0.8s] I enjoyed it infinitely more when people saying, you know, it goes well with this cheese. You getting this flavour, and then, like, when you just said, then it's very.Did you say green? Yeah, I kind of, got that green, but not [...1.4s] obviously, I don't, I don't know how many beer, um, beer geeks will be listening to this, cause it's been predominantly scaffold. It's your job, it's your job now that is your job.No, no, no, I will be spread this far and wide, so as many beer geeks as you can, as you can. Um I certainly will be doing. Um, but, [...1.0s] um, [...0.8s] as I say, green but not grassy, but people, people sometimes [...1.2s] also not people.So you can find in certain hoppy bears hops have been left in too long, start imparting grassy notes, and it's not that pleasant. Um, how do you, how do you police that do you have to, [...0.4s] are you constantly, cause you can't, surely can't try it as it's, [...0.8s] as it going through well, can you?Yeah, yeah, yeah, um well, you just, um, [...2.1s] everyone's got different methods. Um, [...0.9s] the, the hot, the dry, it's a dry hot beer as well.That's, that's part of, that's part of parcel of of how you control the flavours of when you add your dry hops, [...0.4s] and how long you leave them in there for [...0.4s] ultimately, unless you've got a way of getting them out.Leaving them in there is just timing it before you're about to barrel it off. So you, you get, [...1.0s] you get so many so many days before then you might add another dose [...1.0s] again a few days later and then a final dose, that's, this kind of the route I go down final dose, like 24 hours before, just a small one, just to lift it, just to get all of the nice little delicate notes out of them. So you got these ones.I've got it at first, that really starts a [...1.0s] almost turn grassy, right? So that's where it, kinda, be green but not grassy.Then you get [...0.6s] the big flavour punch from the middle set where it's kinda just taken everything and then this, [...0.5s] just this little delicate bit at the end, which is all year, all year almost [...0.5s] the bits that are, that volatile would be gone if you left them and, like [...0.9s] left them in too long.I'm probably not, I'm not articulating this well. Thought, I might be able to bang it on everywhere, mate, [...1.8s] you know, when people say, [...0.8s] uh, you know, hints of X, y, and z, hmm, and all the rest of it.I've always wanted. This [...0.6s] is that something [...1.0s] people put in [...0.4s] join the brewing process. Like they'll go, I, I've heard people say like, things like elder flour and, like, you know, things that are like very kind of British flavours to people.Yeah, put stuff like that in while it's brewed. So you, I, I, I certainly know people that have brewed with, with [...0.8s] the raw ingredients all that. If they wanted all the flour, and you would probably do it.But there's no doubt there'll be a combination of hops that would get you [...0.8s] somewhere in the ballpark [...0.4s] maybe, maybe if you was gonna be that [...0.8s] specific on it, I think, I think something like elderflow would, you, would just be added to the beer at some point in the brewing process.Um, but the, [...0.6s] um, [...0.5s] I think a better example of what you're talking about is, [...0.7s] um, [...1.5s] you will see [...2.2s] bears with notes of citrus, pine, yeah, and stuff like that. A lot of that is just down to the hops and, and the malts that have been used.You know, it's a shame, the other bear that I was hopefully going to bring, which didn't, [...0.4s] uh, end up being, uh, for one reason, another. You, you get, [...0.4s] um, [...0.9s] the real balance of flavours between citrus, um, and then like, you more, [...0.4s] um, [...1.3s] I even know what kind of tropical, I suppose like passion fruit.Yeah, so it's like, a little bit of a mix of citrus and passion fruit, and then really, really weird, [...0.7s] um, [...0.6s] kind of undertones of caramel. But that's coming from the malts.It's very delicate caramel, and it just sweetens the whole thing up just a little bit. So it's not too sharp, it's not too, [...0.6s] um, hot base, [...0.8s] right, it's, I, I find it's probably one of my most balanced ales.Right, [...1.2s] so how [...0.5s] I was gonna ask then [...0.7s] obviously the ingredients, uh huh, they're gonna be important into what [...0.4s] the flavours are gonna be like, once it's, [...0.5s] you know what, once it's been brewed, [...0.4s] the question was gonna be how would you [...0.7s] maintain, like, a consistency.Cause I can imagine [...0.6s] things are gonna be seasonal, a hot and imagine is gonna taste different at different time of year.Well, if there's only one harvest, [...0.6s] um, but I suppose different climates though, cause, like, you might have won somewhere it's really hot, you might have won somewhere where it's, that does affect that does affect, and is the whole point that it's not consistent.It's like, [...0.5s] um, as as brew obviously the, the, the [...0.8s] ultimately the same plan year in year out the, the, the bread obviously, [...0.4s] um, and just, just like marijuana the same. Uh, yeah, I was speaking about this, they are the same, um, type of plant.It is a, [...1.0s] as I, I don't know I don't know what the the terminology would be, but basically, [...0.4s] um, hmm, um, it is the same type of plant. Hot, a hot plant is the same type of plant as a, as a cannabis plant but one grows hops, the other bro grows the other, [...0.9s] right.Um, so, [...0.6s] uh, [...0.9s] yes, you, you're right in saying different climates, um, [...1.9s] will, will affect it. But ultimately, [...0.4s] um, as brewers, [...0.6s] we [...0.7s] would [...1.3s] use, use our, I suppose our nose for our taste for it to decide whether we needed to, [...0.6s] um, add or subtract on amounts that we're, we're adding.Yeah, um, is it does, does [...1.2s] a craft ale, I think that's the beauty of a craft ale, [...0.4s] yeah, is [...0.5s] a small batch brood, it is going to change ever since, like, year to year.We were talking about me before, about, like, I hear all these terms, and I've never really understood them, but I've always been interested, and we're talking about a session IPA and what, what constitutes a session, [...0.5s] uh, drink, [...0.6s] and I, I was like, oh, is it like a [...0.7s] thought, it might have had something to do with, like, [...0.6s] a growing session, like, this is where we've grown this particular ingredient, and it's only gonna be for this particular batch and ants, like, no session means session, it means [...0.8s] having a good future.Yeah, it means that, it means, it means you can sit, you can sit, you can stay on it all day, and then probably still walk home at the end of it.Yeah, you know, it depends who you are. We've got some good friends out with it. We, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, we've got friends who could session 6 percenters. I don't really know how 6% in session. What is this? By the way, this is 5%, 5%. Yeah, you gonna say, um, [...0.8s] I say still in the days, hope you get that bit of a, [...1.0s] there's a good there's a good there's a good, uh there's a good punch to it.It's dry, it's, uh, it's very citrusy, [...0.4s] um, like I say does that account look like, um, green rezziness, kind of, vibe at the end? Um, [...0.9s] it's a shame that there's one flavour that I picked up on, [...0.4s] uh, in my.So obviously, [...0.4s] I said this is, this is carbonated and put into bottles. Um, hmm, um, you definitely picked the right one for me, by the way.Yeah, cause of, yeah, I can drink the, [...0.5s] the, you know, there's still more, [...0.4s] um, flat bears, but like the cast scales, yeah, I do. This is more, kind of familiar that you know, [...0.6s] yeah, uh the the cast version of this. Um, you get almost, like, um, orange, [...0.7s] like, orange bitters, right.Imagine have it like that out of a cocktail, but you get the, kind of these notes about or, like, really bitter orange in the, in the background. Uh why are they selling this? Uh, I've stopped producing it fully off at the moment.This is a trial, this is a, this is another trial for it. Um, I've stopped producing it to sell, because, [...0.6s] um, [...1.2s] I think it could be better. They basically I've got all the beers that ultimately don't cost as much to produce or sell.Yeah, so, and this is expensive and doesn't come anywhere near, [...1.3s] yeah, one of the other ones.Yeah, we were, we were same before I, I, I, I I sorry to bring you a trial. No, I just didn't have I didn't have the the ability to bring anything else, uh, today. But I thought it would be nice to have, have a share, and ultimately, it's not bad beer.It just, it's just not where what goes into, it [...0.5s] isn't where I need it to be. So it's either, let's take, take, strip it back [...0.6s] and find out where we can add it to make it better. Or, [...1.3s] um, I think that's the only way really considering. It's, [...1.0s] hmm, considering adding more is only gonna make it more expensive.So, [...0.5s] um, and I don't think that's the, that's not the way forward so, um, I did show me the, uh, the time, and he's got five minutes, five minutes so all right, we're ready to, kind of, wrap up quickly. Where can people find this, oh, not quickly, even you got five minutes, where right?Okay, so, [...0.4s] um, [...1.4s] we'll be running, [...0.4s] running short on time in terms of, [...1.9s] sorry, gravity car keys.I don't know why I grabbed my keys though. Fidgeting now because you told me got five minutes, but [...1.0s] Old Oldham Bearingside, Oldham Bearingside a festival is next week. Okay, does that mean [...0.6s] Friday and Saturday [...0.6s] at Queen Elizabeth Hall right in the centre of Oldham?Yep, no, it won't. Um, yeah, so, um I don't know when this session is gonna actually be released for.Yeah, no, but at the end of the day, like, say I've got to mention it. If it gets out in time for people to hear about it. I'll be, I'll be promoting it on [...0.7s] the [...0.5s] socials. I'm gonna be working there behind the bar on Friday night and Saturday day time. Um, I can rate your pint pulling skills. We're talking about it as well. Oh, I'm not, I don't pull a good pint.Well, it's, it's interesting that there's a booster down the road, and it's like, [...0.4s] they've got a Brewer, so it's not like a, you know, um, [...0.5s] it's nothing kind of bespoke or anything like, it's, it's, it's a mainstream brewery.Yeah, uh, it's a streetbridge and a fellow pulling me a pint there. He was like pulling this pint, and he's like, [...0.6s] I'm not good at that, just wait a minute, I'm not good at that.We've been in the street bridge before years ago. We were alone. Yeah, yeah, um, probably that day, um, [...0.6s] with the [...0.5s] giant phone football incident. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I know where it is. It's just over a little bridge in it.Yeah, yeah, yeah, straight bridge straight off. Haha, uh, yeah, it's, um it's this guy's, like, pulling this part is like, I'm up with that and then goes back, and he's like, and I, I'm always impressed when I see somebody who's, like, passionate about what they're doing, and they're not just, [...0.6s] and you, I mean, with you saying that you pull certain beers because you're not happy with them, [...0.5s] really impressed by that, you know what I mean, cause it shows that you've got, it's your passion.It's not like, you, [...0.6s] you're not willing to just go, nah, give me the money give me the money this need thing needs to sell, sell, sell.It's uh, and I think people like that in business get found out pretty quickly, you know, just wanna yeah, make a quick book. You've, you've clearly taken the long, [...0.6s] um, right path. Yeah, I've had, I've had um, there was we, we sell to a pub down, um, down in Derby.Um, and the first [...0.5s] bat, Jesus, so as I said, I, 10 to 10 to send two down at a time, obviously make my, uh, a journey worthwhile.And one of the first barrels she put on [...1.0s] was a, was a was a foul one oh, that's just a mishap, that's just an unfortunate mishap, and it happens to every Brewer.No, obviously, the, the best thing is, is that the customer never finds if there's a good if there's somebody good behind the bar looking after the ale, which I know they do, did the one of [...0.4s] the, like, an award winning pub down that way [...0.4s] for serving real ale.She, uh, she got in touch with me, and she told me that the barrel wasn't, wasn't great.And the first thing I did was [...0.4s] said, right, I said, let me work out my schedule. I really, [...0.5s] like, I was gutted, I felt like crying.He'd be first one as well the first time anybody rang me back and told me that the beer was foul.So I was, I was like wounded but I got my schedule. I was like, [...0.6s] listen, [...0.5s] um, as soon as I can get you a replacement barrel, I'll be down. I think I got down there that side with a replacement barrel for a show us a commitment, yeah, yeah, and, you know, it's not exactly around the corner, is it Derby?But, um, it was worthwhile doing it is worthwhile doing to make sure, [...0.6s] um, that anybody doubt that, that it doesn't take her view of, yeah, of, oh, their view of, of our Brewer.Hey, it, it shows that we actually care rather, so as you committed to your product rather than just going, oh, I'll just show you that, I'll just send you the money back, I'll just give you a refund.I've, I've done a refund inadvertently, but it's not a monetary one. It's the, you getting the product, making sure that she knows that, that product is how it should be, and we do that with anybody who, [...0.6s] um, [...0.4s] has an issue.Obviously, I do like to inspect and I did inspect that barrel when I got down there and it was, it was it was not to any, anywhere near the standard that we expect our beer to be at. Um.That's impressive that you'd go that, you know, it's going the extra mile. I think with that attitude and business, you'll, uh, if you can get out there and make sure that you're delivering the best product you possibly can, [...0.6s] um, you deliver the best service you possibly can and you're true to your word, you know, I think you'll, uh, you'll go very, very far. Yeah, I certainly hope so. Um.Thank you, mate. There's so much more we could go into on this episode, so much more. I think the only thing we could possibly do is get you back on. Um.So after the festival, maybe couple of weeks, well, can I, can I mention one more event? I just, I just I needed to open my phone, so have a look at my calendar cause I'll get the date wrong otherwise. Um, the bomb in Rochdale, um, [...0.6s] on the, [...1.0s] uh, 28th, 29th and 30th.I think the, the 28th is a Friday, so, kinda, like Friday payday for those who are paid monthly. Um, we are having what is called a tap takeover. Basically, we will have six beers on top there, um, basically our full range [...1.3s] bans this one, cause, like, say it's still in trials.This one won't be off, but there may, there may be a trial of the new version on, but it won't be labelled as this first trial. It won't be labelled, labelled as fever dream. It's past, it's past the first trial.Thank you very much. We're, uh, so loving it. Um, the bomb, [...0.6s] um, in Rochdale on the 28th, 29th and 30th of April, um, Wakey, Wakey Brewing Company will have six beers [...0.9s] on, on the handfuls on all cascale. Um, [...0.4s] and it'll be a good day. I'll be down there to [...0.6s] talk to people about my bear as well.So well, I think you've, uh, you've done a great job on this, and, you know, the proof is in the, uh, the pirates of this. And this is a, I love your drink, so thanks for sharing it with us.Thanks for coming on the podcast. It's been, uh, fantastic avenue, [...0.4s] uh, definitely gonna continue this conversation and get you back on. I think for now best thing we can probably do is [...0.7s] add a pint, have another day. Yeah, [...0.5s] absolutely. Cheers, cheers. Thanks for tuning in. [...10.3s][...10.3s]
